Manooj Mistry (db x-trackers): It depends on what you define as important. Does important mean 20%, 50% or 80%? If you look at ETF assets as a percentage of total fund assets in Europe, they are probably less than 1.5%. In the US this figure is probably around 6%. It’s a very small segment of the overall market. I can say though that the usage [of ETFs] among pension funds will and should increase significantly. It’s probably going to take time and it’s going to vary from one region or country to another, but it’s definitely poised to grow. In the UK, the take up is low. It’s probably a question of education. Part of the responsibility to raise awareness is on the product providers. Probably though, ETFs are still going to be one of many other different investments pension funds will consider.
As an ETF issuer we’re actually quite agnostic about how pension funds use ETFs. Our job is to provide the building blocks, and then it’s down to the consultants and the managers to determine how they want to use those products in their portfolio. Maybe for some people only 5% allocation to ETFs is suitable, while for others it might be 100%. But it’s up to them, depending on their risk profile, their cost constraints etc. We as issuers try to provide the right products. Together with firms like CASAM we are innovating and providing access to new markets and asset classes. Now we just need to educate, raise the awareness and make sure pension funds have the products there and start to use them if they want to.
Olivier Paquier (CASAM): I agree with Manooj, ETFs today are underused by some institutional investors and especially pension funds. As you said Manooj, it’s definitely a question of education. This needs to be done not only by ETF providers, but also index providers and stock exchanges. Every single player on the ETF market needs to participate and enhance the tremendous scope of ETF features.
Tony Raw (FTSE): The key word here is ‘important’. Volume will be important as ETFs are used more widely as a mechanism to access investment opportunities in the global market. For instance, we’ve seen over 60% growth in the assets going into the ETFs tracking FTSE indices this year. That volume is going up and that shows the investment opportunity is there and I think it will be taken up. It will become a greater vehicle gaining a greater percentage of allocation.
MM: Has the growth been as a result of a loss of other mandates that have been benchmarked to FTSE?
TR: No. What is more interesting is that the range of indices created to support ETFs has become more innovative and produced collaboratively over the last few years.
These range from building a strategy into an index, creating indices like short, leveraged and volatility indices, to the development of standard indices covering a wider range of asset classes. As an index company we’ve invested in our custom, quant and research teams to serve the demand that has come from ETF issuers as well as asset managers directly, such as indices we’ve built with Manooj and db x-trackers. Since the downturn there’s an array of new ETF opportunities springing up such as Borsa Italiana, the Italian exchange, after a number of issuers have expressed interest in the Italian market.
Over and above these developments, there is a growth story in asset class coverage; eg the alternatives space. Our reaction to that is to provide more opportunities for investors in the alternatives space, including currency and fixed income indices. So developments are occurring across the asset classes, not just traditional equity, and using strategies within a passive investment tool, in response to the ETF market demand.
Funds Europe: Chris, can you give us a consultant’s point of view? Do you think ETFs are going to gain importance in the pension fund world?
Chris Edge (Allenbridge Investment Advisors): My take would be that ETFs don’t have a great deal of exposure in traditional pension fund structures at the moment, but I’m sure they will in the future. The fundamental reason for that lies in the active-passive debate. There is undoubtedly a role to blend active and passive investment strategies. I would think ETFs have got a role to play for pension schemes, particularly in less efficient markets and more specific alternative emerging places.
Funds Europe: What about from an institutional investor standpoint? Roy?
Roy Gillson (Aerion): ETFs are very competitive products and will represent a small but growing share of UK pension scheme investments, but only through delegate agents using them for the right purposes.
Critical to this discussion are the decision-making structures delegated authorities have. In Europe, which in the pensions world generally refers to Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands, there are management companies with delegated authorities who manage the investments on a defined basis and they have authority to manage those processes. In the UK we have a different structure with trustee boards and investment committees. Those trustee boards and investment committees retain more of the ultimate authority and day-to-day responsibility than their equivalents in those three continental countries.
So in order to use an ETF you have to have an agent who understands ETFs, has the authority to use them and would have interest in using them over other products. If you’re a manager of managers and your job is to demonstrate your ability to choose active managers, why would you use an ETF in that process? It doesn’t necessarily demonstrate what you’re trying to prove. However, if you were given the practical asset allocation responsibility, or a transition responsibility, clearly you would use ETFs.
If you’re a pension fund that wants exposure to commodities then ETFs are an obvious answer but who has authority to actually engage a pension scheme in making that choice? I think a misunderstanding of delegated authority within UK pension schemes is at the heart of getting the question across as to who is making decisions and how can those decisions be made.
I speak on behalf of an in-house investment team for a large pension scheme so we have authority, responsibility and the ability to advise trustees and investment committees on new ventures. But you can sometimes get into the situation where the statement of investment principles or the investment management agreement would not enable you to invest in an ETF because it’s not a quoted company or it’s not a Ucits. So there are all sorts of good reasons why people won’t do these things.
Funds Europe: What about consultants? How important is their role the development of ETF’s in the institutional market?
CE: The role of traditional investment consulting is changing in front of our eyes, for lots of reasons. Fiduciary styles of management, implemented consulting, delegated consulting, however you choose to describe it, or more pure liability management from firms such as Cardano and MN Services from the Netherlands are coming to market. Through such providers trustees delegate a significant part of their decision making on a tactical basis. I’m sure that the providers will use ETFs, much more so than in traditional structures where a consultant simply advises on manager structures and so on. For smaller schemes, most investment managers will provide something similar through structures such as diversified growth funds. So ETFs have got a very obvious role to play in those sort of structures.
It’s interesting to look at why delegated or implemented consulting and fiduciary management hold appeal. This is because there is more pressure on trustee knowledge and understanding and for trustees to have a stronger fiduciary responsibility. But how well qualified are lay trustees really to take investment-related decisions?
We’ve had two of the most extreme market conditions ever experienced within the last decade, which gives the opportunity for fiduciary styles to make an impact. Due to timeliness and the rapidity of decision making, these styles have considerable appeal. That’s why the consulting model is changing very rapidly, but where does that leave traditional styles?
Many trustee boards, especially those of smaller schemes, will stay as they always have done. And unless you’re managing money on a real-time basis, or advising on a real-time basis, then the consultant won’t have much involvement with ETFs.
Another thing that is happening is that some larger schemes are appointing their own CIOs – some have already. Other not so large schemes are looking at part-time CIOs and this is a very sensible alternative. If I were appointed as a part-time CIO by a medium-sized scheme I would wish to use ETFs for tactical asset allocation purposes.
But the question is how much will fiduciary management and the idea of part-time CIOs actually gain traction?
RG: It’s difficult to know. I personally believe more delegated authority is a good idea and it is necessary to move towards more fiduciary responsibility. But to an extent the short-term future of this [ETFs within an institutional context] doesn’t really depend on that. Pension schemes aren’t static; they move their investment policy all the time. Transition agents of one form or another do a large part of the trading on behalf of pension schemes and I presume they use ETFs all the time. So what proportion of trading and what proportion of permanent investment is in ETFs is a different question.
TR: That’s a very valid point. As a global company we see both UK versus non-UK developments and we’ve seen
delegated authority too, particularly in the Scandinavian and Dutch markets. We work with pension funds who do have delegated authority, so they do turn to the banks on structured products or to the ETF issuers and they look at those as vehicles to make the transition. This is clearly the challenge with the ETF play in the UK. Regarding consultants and the growth of ETFs in a wider UK institutional market, I think the driver right now could be the cost and transparency advantages associated with an ETF. One thing that’s different this time around is that there also seems to be an extra push for a lot of the UK asset owners to think about delegated authority, to get to the market more quickly.
Funds Europe: Olivier, what is your take as a non-UK player?
OP: I agree with the fact that ETF features like liquidity and cost efficiency have been very much under the watchful eye of pension funds and other institutional investors in continental Europe. Especially over the last two years, ETF features were as important as performance and risk. Before ETFs, performance and risk were key. Now on top of the tracking error, the risks, the counterparty risks, the liquidity and the simplicity of the products, the ease of trading and the repositioning and rebalancing of positions are becoming more and more important. So that’s what institutional investors in continental Europe are focusing on now.
Over the last year in France, a change among consultants has been observed, namely with regard to their attitudes towards ETFs. This was due to a lot of education, a lot of training from the ETF players in continental Europe. Consultants on the institutional side, as well as independent financial advisors, on the institutional, but also on the retail side, have started recommending ETFs.
MM: It’s interesting to learn that the consultants’ model is changing. We found that because of the different model in continental Europe, especially in the Nordic countries, we saw a great acceptance in usage of ETFs. It’s a question for providers like us to engage with people like Chris and Roy to raise the awareness. Roy asked whether ETFs are Ucits or listed securities – they’re both. So there are things people still don’t understand and it’s imperative that we get this across. Two years ago I participated in a pension fund event where they categorised ETFs as alternatives. ETFs are not alternatives; they’re very much a mainstream investment. It’s about getting the message across, telling people what they are and how they work. Explaining that they’re not anything dangerous, but are a friendly tool. As Roy said, they might be ideal for people to use as a tactical asset allocation tool, maybe for others it’s a long-term investment tool – it depends on the investment mandate of the pension fund.
The disadvantage we have versus active managers is that they’ve got hundreds of sales people talking to consultants and pension funds managers in the UK. There are probably less than ten dedicated sales people from ETF providers in the UK. Obviously we need to start with the consultants so they’re familiar with them. It might not work for everyone but it might work for some of their clients. We just need to keep on pushing.
Funds Europe: Do you think there is sufficient awareness about the potential of ETFs on behalf of institutional investors? What steps need to be taken to educate and inform?
RG: It is very clear that there isn’t sufficient awareness and that’s part of what we’re trying to do here. But professional fund managers are well aware of ETFs. So the keen need for education is really amongst the pension fund professionals and trustees, particularly through the consultant community. In the UK pension fund area you always have to bring the consultants on board first. But there has to be a general education of trustees as well, otherwise they’re not going to commit one of their agents to using ETFs. They’re typically a very conservative bunch of people. So there’s a material job to be done. There are distance learning processes that can be organised by the industry.
TR: How do you think we can gain better access to the trustees and the asset owners?
RG: NAPF and distance learning through trustee education is the normal process.
TR: FTSE participates in NAPF conferences and has a dedicated team targeting communications to the top 50 asset owners in Europe, as well as the top 50 in the UK itself, but it has its challenges.
RG: You won’t get access.
TR: On a wider level it is more about communicating and informing the asset owners. Index providers must convey information to trustees, to the CIO of a top asset owner or pension fund. Being able to do this is paramount and finding the right way to do it is key.
RG: It has to be part of the trustee’s education process, which is governed typically by the NAPF. So ensure that it’s part of the NAPF training process.
CE: It is very difficult to get hold of trustees. There is no official register or directory with contact details. Ultimately the best target is the chairman of trustees, but how do you find who the chairman of trustees is? It’s almost impossible. The consultants are key. At AEIA we’re different because we’re investment advisors. But even among the most experienced guys in our group, there’s some fairly low levels of knowledge of ETFs. We were given a presentation by a provider, which was very educational. Conferences are also a good way of getting out there although trustee boards can have strange attitudes towards conferences, particularly in the public sector.
RG: You have to remember that trustees are doing it on a voluntary basis, it’s a very responsible job. It takes a huge amount of time and getting their attention and spending their time is actually really tough because they’ve got many priorities.
CE: But sponsors should recognise that and make sure trustees are given the time out of their programme
RG: Which is why you have to get to trustees through their education process. Conferences are good, but the main agent is going to be the consultant.
TR: There are several parties that have a keen interest in addressing this issue and that number is growing. It’s not only ETF issuers or index companies. For instance, academics and research parties are entering this space providing educational material. If an index is going to go out and an ETF is going to be tracking it, then there is more supply and mechanism to get the message across. As an index provider you can’t sit and wait for the message to somehow reach your audience, you’ve got to get it to them. It is about organising more road shows to inform understanding about the investment strategy that is behind the ETF. We have implemented a few of these which have been pretty successful.
One such example was regarding the use of fundamental indices versus market cap indices. We worked with Research Affiliates, our partner on the FTSE RAFI Index Series who went out across Europe. These events help to promote the understanding of this investment strategy and the index.
Credibility can help in promoting ETFs to the institutional audience, such as the credibility of the ETF issuer acting as a counterparty. Also in times of uncertainty, if you’re using an index from a reputable index company, you benefit from the brand reputation as well as the benefits of an index; transparency, low-cost and a proven track record. It is crucial that investors understand and appreciate the value of the index as well as the ETF issuer.
Funds Europe: Do ETF’s really provide investors with a service that cannot be replicated by other products or are they a substitute for passive or tracker approaches? Can ETFs be used to create to create alpha?
OP: Definitely yes. ETFs are unparalleled products so far. Aside from the mainstream features of ETFs that many people are aware of, it’s less known that ETFs have advanced features that can be used as well. ETFs are simple tools that can be used to put any strategy into practice – whether it is static or dynamic, strategic or tactical.
Advanced features of ETFs enable investors to practice securities lending, trading options, short selling. You can do many things with ETFs. You can even generate alpha with ETFs, depending on your strategy. This is a highly flexible tool that enables you to suit and to fill any investment scheme that you like. The product, whether it tracks a complex index or a mainstream index, remains passive. It remains a simple, easy-to-use highly liquid product. So I believe there is no other product on the market today that does this. There are similar products but ETFs are among the easiest to trade.
MM: I agree. We see ETFs as being active with passive instruments, for strategic or tactical asset allocation. Obviously there are alternatives. There are traditional index funds and many pension funds will give mandates to the traditional index managers. Maybe they can do it cheaper for the main markets like the UK or US. But in the ETF market you have such a wide and diverse range of products that can access the niche markets through ETFs, which maybe you can’t do in traditional funds. Also, the structure of ETFs means they can be much more efficient at tracking an index versus a traditional index fund. Although this may not be as relevant for pension funds, you’ve also got the ease of getting in and out at the moment you choose. Furthermore, if you’re invested in an ETF you can lend the shares out so you’ve got ways of generating additional return and additional alpha.
Funds Europe: Roy, from the perspective of an investor do you think ETFs could provide you with something you can’t get from other parts of the market?
RG: From our perspective, there are relatively few index products, not in terms of long index-matching products but in terms of futures on other subsidiary assets. If there were tradable futures in many of these sectors and segments of the market then you would probably not have the market for ETFs. One wonders why there aren’t those other products.
In the absence of those products, clearly ETFs fill a real need, which is liquid access, and proxy-ing for many sectors of the market and this is clearly very useful for professional fund managers as part of a balanced active strategy. Most active strategies are a blend of partly active, partly passive, no matter how much active managers talk about being wholly active. So ETFs can be a good part of a balanced portfolio. Then again, they’re up against competing products, direct investment, index products. If you’ve got a large pot of money you can manage it more cheaply for a long period of time outside ETFs, but for most people ETFs are very flexible, liquid and relatively cheap access to markets.
CE: It’s an interesting question, why there aren’t more widespread indices, derivatives etc.
MM: Certain clients can’t use futures because they don’t have the infrastructure to use them. Also the fact that ETFs are Ucits regulated, the highest form of fund regulation helps. That provides a comfort, which the trustees and consultants will be looking for in the investments they make.
TR: There is plenty of retail as well as institutional interest coming to ETFs because of the regulation and the fact that they’re Ucits compliant.
Funds Europe: Considering the huge growth in the ETF market seen last year (and following the closing of a number of ETFs), has the market reached saturation point or is there still scope for more ETF launches with new asset classes and indices?
MM: Yes and no. We entered the market in January 2007 and at the time people were saying we were late to the market. Since then we’ve seen about four or five other new issuers come to the European market. People like Credit Agricole increased their range in the meantime. As I said in the beginning, ETFs account for around 1.5% of total fund assets in Europe so there is significant growth potential. Even if you look at the US, which is a more mature market, you still see new providers coming in and new products being launched. I don’t agree with all the products being launched, in terms of some of the markets they offer – I don’t see the value in some of them. For example, there is, or was, a Walmart Suppliers Index ETF.
OP: There’s even an ETF tracking Texas companies only!
MM: That’s a bit too esoteric. But as an issuer we’ve got to take that risk and stick your neck out and bring these products. Occasionally they don’t work and you have admit it and that product off the market. So you’ll see products coming in and maybe some products being withdrawn, but that’s a natural process. You see that with active funds as well.
Funds Europe: Is there any concern about overlapping products?
MM: Because Europe is so fragmented you’ve got different regulations and rules in each country. There are different tax regimes, accessibility etc. As a result of this fragmentation, you’re going to get people concentrating on different things, perhaps on home markets, or particular niches, while some issuers are going to be broad. Firms like ourselves and CASAM, for example, offer a broad range of ETFs and we’re trying to access a number of European countries. There’s room for all but from time to time maybe you’ll get a bit of consolidation.
OP: I agree with the fact that the market will clean itself. There will be some natural selection put into practice by investors who will pick certain ETFs instead of others, but I certainly don’t think the ETF market is saturated now. We started to relaunch the CASAM ETF products in June 2008 and since then, at the end of September, the total number has reached 65 ETFs totalling our product range, covering equity, fixed-income and money market underlyings. We’ve seen a growing appetite from investors for our ETFs. Also, as an ETF provider, we’re a sponsor of the Edhec European Survey on continental Europe and the UK and quite a number of investors said that they were still looking for ETFs on emerging markets, new forms of indices, emerging market bonds and various commodities. Therefore, the appetite is still there and there are a lot of products that still need to be launched. We see a lot of ETFs that do replicate the same indices. The distinction will be made by institutional investors regarding the quality of tracking and the costs involved. In the long run, institutional investors are drilling down more into detail on the cost and efficiency of tracking.
TR: I totally agree. We are seeing more issuers and more new players. Just this year, we’ve signed with seven new houses. You’ve got a mixture of the bigger players as well as niche players, so the market is varied. They’re clearly serving a demand and to us, that demand is clear. We have witnessed 60% growth year to date in the ETFs sitting on our indices on the listed exchanges and this tells us something. And it’s not just in the leading benchmarks such as the FTSE 100 either. Our largest is the Vanguard ETF (based on the FTSE All World ex-US), which has an AuM of over $3bn. It’s in our indices looking at emerging markets such as China, which has over $5.5bn AuM. At the same time while there is a demand for global investment in the mainstream country tradable indices, there is also a growing interest in niche and thematic investment areas such as environmental technologies. The range within the market and the demand leading it is such, that even with the number ETF players in it, it cannot be saturated. Not at the present.
CE: May I ask what size of assets do you have to have in an individual ETF for it to be viable?
MM: We have over 100 ETFs and we acknowledge that there will be some ‘blockbuster’ funds, some medium-sized and some smaller ones. The objective for us is to provide a full menu of products that people can use. There’s no critical size, we have a broad range of products and assets of over €23bn so it’s more than self sufficient.
CE: What happens when you’ve decided to close ETFs down?
MM: At db x-trackers we’ve never closed down an ETF.
OP: Its the same for CASAM ETF. We’ve launched many but haven’t closed any down.
Funds Europe: The asset management industry has seen evidence of polarisation with investors either looking for high alpha products or low-cost passive strategies. ETFs benefited from this in the months post-crisis, but is there the danger that money will flow out of ETFs and back into active strategies as the world recovers?
MM: No I don’t think so. ETFs are a flexible tool so if people want to park their money into ETFs while they’re deciding which active fund to go into, that’s perfectly fine. We’re agnostic and we rely on the skills of the investment managers, the consultants, to determine the best strategy for a particular fund. Obviously its nice to see more ETFs being used and a higher percentage, but ultimately we’re providing the tools and as long as people understand the versatility of ETFs in terms of how they can use them then I think it’s fine. One thing we’re seeing is that active managers will want to continue to pick the best stocks, and that’s their job, but they have the option to use ETFs. Eight or ten years ago they didn’t have that option and maybe they had periods where they might have underperformed. Now over the course of the crisis they’ve said ‘OK I don’t know which fund to buy so I’ll switch into an ETF and then when the markets improve or conditions are looking better then I can switch into an active fund’. So we’ve provided them with an interim solution.
OP: From my perspective, institutional investors who have tried ETFs during the crisis and tested them for the first time seem to have been convinced. They’re getting out of their original positions and switching to another ETF offering another exposure that it could not have access to within other investment products.
MM: If you look at the statistics the market is still growing. We have nothing to worry about in that respect. It’s increasing awareness that is the most pressing need. Hopefully people have had a good experience.
TR: There is a continual debate on the boundaries between what is alpha and beta, and within the index space we are seeing that there does not necessarily have to be a choice. The reality is that through ETFs you can access the potential alpha within the investment, as ETFs are now following indices that have been enabled through customisation, with enhanced strategies and structures, eg shorting and leveraging. So that’s serving the alpha demand through ETFs. While at the passive end, the beta end, you have can track investment options by asset class and by geography, all operating within an open and transparent rules-based manner. I don’t see why the popularity of ETFs shouldn’t stay.
Funds Europe: We have seen the creation of esoteric ETFs like short ETFs, inverse ETFs and even talk of active ETFs. Could these more complex instruments tarnish the solid, transparent reputation the ETF brand has built?
MM: No. There has been comment in the press about counterparty risk and the problem in the US with the short and leveraged products. But it’s all about understanding how these products work. A year ago when Lehman’s blew up everyone was worried about counterparty risk and I had four or five clients a day on the phone to whom Iâ€ˆexplained how counterparty risk works on an ETF. It’s just about that education. ETFs are Ucits compliant – they have certain parameters they have to abide by. You have a maximum counterparty exposure if you have a swap-based ETFs and also there is a high level of supervision.
People take comfort from these things so it’s just a matter of explaining it to them. Same goes for the short and leveraged debate, which has happened in the US. In Europe there hasn’t been much of an impact because the ETF market is much smaller and we’ve taken a different approach. Plus in the US, it’s a bigger retail market and this also has an impact on how these products have performed. Even then we’ve taken initiatives, we re-branded the name of the product as ‘daily’. We’ve asked index providers like FTSE to think about introducing the word ‘daily’ into the index name as well. As we were saying earlier, we need to do the workshops with the trustees, we need to educate the fund managers in terms of how they work.
I was on a road show last week that we were doing with one of these IFA wrap platforms, talking to people in Leeds and Birmingham, in the UK. We had a room full of IFAs, around 50 in each location, and we spent an hour explaining ETFs to them. At the beginning less than 5% knew how ETFs worked but at the end they fully understood them and said this is something they could maybe use for their clients, something they could recommend. It’s a question of spending that time but we’re thin on the ground in terms of man power on the ETF front so we need to get out there and play catch up with active fund managers.
RG: To put in the counter view: replicating ETFs is one market; ETFs using swaps is a second market; and then more complex products form another market. If you’re trying to give a clear message to a group of people this makes life quite complicated and unless you’ve got some easy way of renaming or rebranding, or just calling the complicated ones something different, then you have a problem when selling to the main, vanilla market, which I would assume to be a main growth. Although perhaps it’s not where everybody makes the most money. Potentially there could be a marketing message confusion.
CE: To go slightly off point but of great importance for the industry going forward, the vast majority of pension money is still in defined benefit schemes but it’s not going to be that way for much longer. The trend is going very much for defined contribution (DC). What percentage of that DC pension can go into ETFs? What is the current role of ETFs in the DC pensions market?
RG: That’s a real potential market for ETFs – given the cost issues from the sponsor side.
Funds Europe: Commission fee structures are on their way out, at least in the UK. Could this mean that ETFs can gain some traction in the European retail market?
TR: It ties into the last question. Am I concerned about the credibility of ETFs and the marketability? Today no, because we have Ucits and we have no black box investment algorithms behind the investment strategy for ETFs. If they were black boxed and there was no Ucits then I would be worried. Giving a grading or some official ranking to the type of ETF and the risk it carries, that’s worth considering in the interest of both institutional and retail markets.
Retail markets propose a huge opportunity in the long run, as long as there is regulation and control and marketing is accurate. For example, the retail market for ETFs got very active in Italy this year, with our takeover of the benchmark index, now known as the FTSE MIB. Potentially retail investors can see ETFs as something tangible; in the way they see property. So yes there is a growing opportunity as long as the industry is controlled and well regulated.
OP: Over the last two years, ETFs have proven that they are ‘healthy’ products and they are part of have a ‘healthy’ market in Europe. I would not say there is one retail market, but there are many retail markets with various levels of understanding, various levels of appetite and perception about stock exchange listed products. That is one of the challenges for us in the European market. As an ETF provider we have to provide full understanding and range availability for all kinds of investors; to institutional investors, pension funds as well as the retail investors. There are many opportunities still and there is a lot to do.
- Roy Gillson, chief executive, Aerion (Managers National Grid Pension Scheme)
- Tony Raw, managing director Europe, FTSE Group
- Chris Edge, CEO, Allenbridge Investment Advisors
- Olivier Paquier, ETF Product Specialist, Credit Agricole Structured Asset Management (CASAM)
- Manooj Mistry, head of structuring, db x-trackers
- Angele Spiteri Paris, deputy editor, Funds Europe